Experiments in Dutch championship

Wieger Wesselink · Post by **Wieger Wesselink** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 11:04

The last couple of years the KNDB has been experimenting with the rules of the Dutch championships. The last two times a victory was awarded with 3-0 instead of 2-0. This wasn't a big success, so it has been cancelled. Now they plan to play with 'half victories': if you play a draw with 3 pieces more (where a king counts for 2), you will be rewarded with 3-1. A draw results in 2-2, and a normal victory in 4-0 (or even 5-0!?!?).

I think that the KNDB is too eager too change things. The practical experience with systems like these is so limited, that it seems unwise to use this in a national championship. After all it is an official championship, which should not be used for experiments. Furthermore, I think it would be better if the KNDB would do this in cooperation with other federations.

What do other people think about this? Does the FMJD even allow that a country plays with different rules?

Jacques PERMAL · Post by **Jacques PERMAL** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 19:13

Perhaps KNDB wants to award a bonus to fighting players. There are obviously so many players with only draw aim that KNDB have decided this option.........

Perhaps KNDB board committee think that KNDB = FMJD .........................

Quien sabe ?????

Post by **A.Presman** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 20:19

Every time I read about such an initiatives - I remember this joke from the perestroika time.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryzhkov (that time Prime-minister of the USSR) came to Gorbachev and said,
"Michail. I have a problem. I have chickens on my farm. And they are dying one after other. I don't know what to do."
"I know", Gorbachev said, "You have to paint the roof of your farm in red color and let your chickens listen the music of Beethoven"
"Thanks", Ryzhkov said and walk away.
After few days Ryzhkov comes back to Gorbachev and said,
"Michail, I did just what you said. But it didn't help. Few more chickens have died"
"Hm-m" , Gorbachev said, "strange. Try to paint the roof in blue color and change music to the Beatles."
"Thanks", Ryzhkov says and walk away.
After few more days Ryzhkov comes back to Gorbachev and said:
"Michail, I did again just what you said. But it didn't help. Few more chickens have died."
"Hm-m" , Gorbachev said. "Try to paint the roof in white color and put some folk music on."
"Thanks", Ryzhkov says and walk away.
After few more days Ryzhkov comes back to Gorbachev and said,
"Michail. All chickens are dead now."
"What pity!!!" - Gorbachev exclaimed. "I had still so many ideas!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jacques PERMAL · Post by **Jacques PERMAL** » Sat Sep 06, 2003 23:16

M. Gorbatchev saw the necessity to lead a reform in former USSR.
Some analysers consider it was the beginning of the decline. Others said it was the eve of democracy.

Perhaps KNDB would like to lead a Draught PerestroÃƒÂ®ka. After that, Decline or Better future ?

Quien sabé ?????????????

Post by **A.Presman** » Sun Sep 07, 2003 12:12

There is no doubt that the organisation of draughts sport needs some reformations.

Mainly the sense of the above joke is that
a) please don't issue a solution if you don't know it. Better no advise(action) than the bed one. If a man imitates that he knows when he is just guessing - he is getting co-responsible for "the life of chickens".
b) as a farmer you need to consult specialists and not a people with nice ideas

Mr. Gorbachev (pity I used his name in joke - it leads us now to off topic) knew that the USSR has to be reformed. But he didn't know HOW. And instead of using specialists, professional programs to base the reforms on - he supposed that he knows everything self or asked advise within own Communistic Party.

KNDB knows that we need to do something. But they suggest already not for the first time to paint roof in other color and to change a music.

Jacques PERMAL · Post by **Jacques PERMAL** » Sun Sep 07, 2003 22:59

Whatever system used by KNDB, the classification has been usually the same. Leaders are often : Thijssen, Janssen(s), Clerc, Scholma, Sijbrands etc...............

Florent SANON · Post by **Florent SANON** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 19:54

How the "half-victory" will be considered in the FMJD rating?

Post by **A.Presman** » Mon Sep 08, 2003 20:58

I hope still that the KNDB will have enaugh sence to do not make this experiment. But for rating I suppose it will either not be counted at all or the "half-winnigs" will be counted as a draw.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 10:31

A.Presman wrote: KNDB knows that we need to do something. But they suggest already not for the first time to paint roof in other color and to change a music.

That's a very nice way of putting it. Paul Oudshoorn and others have suggested to start the experiments at a much slower rate. When two players end with the same number of points, the number of 'half victories' (minus the number of 'half losses') will decide. That seems like a much more sensible approach to me. In this way most players will play for a material advantage in the end game, but it doesn't have such far reaching consequences yet. Unfortunately it may already be too late for such alternatives, since I feel the KNDB doesn't have these things under control any more.

Wieger Wesselink · Post by **Wieger Wesselink** » Tue Sep 09, 2003 10:33

BTW, that last one was my post.

Wieger

Jacques PERMAL · Post by **Jacques PERMAL** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 18:21

I saw that there are a big discussion about experiments in dutch language.

Could anyone sum up for non-dutch citizens please ? [img]images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

Post by **A.Presman** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 22:09

Jacques,

I suppose that you can collect already easily the full book of opinions publicly said and written about this matter.
So in few words - it is really difficult.

There is a group of enthusiasts of alternative counting of points (where you get some extra points when you have certain advantage in a draw position) in Holland.
Their leader Henk de Wit is also organising every year very good tournament in Delft where this system is being used.

There is a new body in the KNDB established this year - Council of the federation, and the enthusiasts of this new system got good position there. And without real consultation with players they decided to hold simply the next championship of Holland with new rules. The commission is organised ( from supporters of the new system ) and they are studying now just HOW POINTS WILL BE DISTRIBUTED.
So 5-0, 3-1, 2-2
Or 4-0, 3-1, 2-2
Or 2-0, 1.5-0.5, 1-1

Well, as a medium Dutchman accepts any decision of any governing body with applause [img]images/smilies/icon_wink.gif[/img] - they (enthusiasts) expected that it will easily be so.

But the phenomena of Internet which is already almost able to change the face of democracy ( often you can get the opinion of Demos without a complicated and expensive institute of representatives ) played here some role.
In the Forum of Damweb and in this one (with a lot less heat) came out that the very minority actually supports this idea. [img]images/smilies/icon_eek.gif[/img] And many players are very hard against it. So hard that they claim to stop play or to organise alternative federation if this new system will be used.
Some actions are already taken - a poll is organised in order to show the real opinion of players.

Well we will see coming months how it will go further.

Jacques PERMAL · Post by **Jacques PERMAL** » Sat Sep 27, 2003 23:37

Thanks, Alexander.

Will they paint roofs with red color or blue color ? perhaps they will use ...yellow color !!!!!!!!!!

Guestje · Post by **Guestje** » Tue Sep 30, 2003 19:54

Try out

Wieger Wesselink · Post by **Wieger Wesselink** » Sun Oct 12, 2003 18:12

There has been an unofficial inquiry amongst the Dutch top 200 players about the introduction of the alternative system (also called 'Delftse telling'), see

http://draughts.nl/delft/uitslag.php

Some interesting results: about 80% of the players is against it, including prominent players like Sijbrands and Wiersma. The 8th of November will therefore be a very interesting day. Then the KNDB has the last chance to retreat their earlier decision to organize the Dutch championship 2004 with the Delftse telling.

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