ENGINE SPEED AND STRONG

[Krzysztof Grzelak]

Strange because here it works, if you still have trouble downloading it I can put it on my own server in the future.

Later this week I will upload a new version because this one was done in a hurry and I found some small problems that need to be solved, and I still want to add pondering and a way to play games via the console.

Hi Joost.

Thank you - I downloaded. A little test it. I officially do wait until the official versions of the tournament. Joost I have a request to you. Please write the correct parameter should be egdb-path E:/egdb_intl/wld_v2 when someone has a base ends 8 of Ed's. Catherine the program also works under Dam 2.2.7. There are no bugs.

Krzysztof

[Catherine]

Hi,

It just shows the move it will ponder on but it is not implemented yet, I have to add polling or an extra thread to make it work.

BTW. Now I understand what you meant by DXP and pondering not working optimally, I'm so used to running the engines on separate computers that it didn't appear in my mind that you are using a single computer only. I can imagine that in your case pondering will give a lot of problems.

Joost

Hi Joost,

All it's clear now in my mind. So we will wait for the latest version. We are at the moment enjoying with this one i am doing a match vs Dragon.
Just a question, run dxp on separate machine does it require internet ? And how to run a dxp with our own position or FEN ?
Thank

Catherine

Hi Catherine,

You can run DXP via internet to a remote computer, you can also use 2 or more computers locally connected by an ethernet switch or hub, for 2 computers even a cross-cable will work.

To use DXP with your own position(s) you have to use the options of the GUI you are using or you have to write a script, but that is not so easy. In my eyes one of the biggest problems with computer-draughts is that the existing protocols lack many things and that there is not much standardization. It comes down to the fact that for everything you want to do you have to develop and write software yourself which makes things very time consuming.

I found the error I made in the qsearch and fixed it, strength seems to be ok again, another error was that on some occasions values became <SHRT_MIN or >SHRT_MAX which messed up the values in the transposition table because they are 16 bit. The next thing I will do is to fix the error that you get when you enable egdb on your machine.

Joost

Hi Joost,

Thank for strenght fixed and the rest of error.
We will be glad to test Argus in full strenght.
For the position in dxp, i will forget it for the moment.
It seem that your engine have't problem with time control. The strongest it's Bmi2 isn't?

[Joost Buijs]

Hi Joost,

All it's clear now in my mind. So we will wait for the latest version. We are at the moment enjoying with this one i am doing a match vs Dragon.
Just a question, run dxp on separate machine does it require internet ? And how to run a dxp with our own position or FEN ?
Thank

Catherine

Hi Catherine,

You can run DXP via internet to a remote computer, you can also use 2 or more computers locally connected by an ethernet switch or hub, for 2 computers even a cross-cable will work.

To use DXP with your own position(s) you have to use the options of the GUI you are using or you have to write a script, but that is not so easy. In my eyes one of the biggest problems with computer-draughts is that the existing protocols lack many things and that there is not much standardization. It comes down to the fact that for everything you want to do you have to develop and write software yourself which makes things very time consuming.

I found the error I made in the qsearch and fixed it, strength seems to be ok again, another error was that on some occasions values became <SHRT_MIN or >SHRT_MAX which messed up the values in the transposition table because they are 16 bit. The next thing I will do is to fix the error that you get when you enable egdb on your machine.

Joost

Hi Joost,

Thank for strenght fixed and the rest of error.
We will be glad to test Argus in full strenght.
For the position in dxp, i will forget it for the moment.
It seem that your engine have't problem with time control. The strongest it's Bmi2 isn't?

My engine still plays a little bit to quick, it should use more time at the beginning of the game and somewhat less later on.

The BMI2 version is more than twice as fast and maybe 25 Elo stronger but you need a new processor for it. Intel Haswell, Skylake or Kabylake will work, for AMD you'll need Excavator or the new RyZen processors. 25 Elo is not a lot of difference, so nothing to worry about.

[Krzysztof Grzelak]

Hi Catherine.

If you have a problem with the time to try to set up file cfg. Let me give you an example of my setup.

hash-size 8192
threads 4
egdb yes
egdb-path D:/Argus/wld_database
egdb-pieces 8
egdb-cache 1024
dxp-server yes
dxp-port 27531
dxp-time 10
dxp-moves 75

[Krzysztof Grzelak]

Hi Joost.

Please write what is the smallest number that can be entered in option egdb-cache.

[Catherine]

Hi Catherine,

You can run DXP via internet to a remote computer, you can also use 2 or more computers locally connected by an ethernet switch or hub, for 2 computers even a cross-cable will work.

To use DXP with your own position(s) you have to use the options of the GUI you are using or you have to write a script, but that is not so easy. In my eyes one of the biggest problems with computer-draughts is that the existing protocols lack many things and that there is not much standardization. It comes down to the fact that for everything you want to do you have to develop and write software yourself which makes things very time consuming.

I found the error I made in the qsearch and fixed it, strength seems to be ok again, another error was that on some occasions values became <SHRT_MIN or >SHRT_MAX which messed up the values in the transposition table because they are 16 bit. The next thing I will do is to fix the error that you get when you enable egdb on your machine.

Joost

Hi Joost,

Thank for strenght fixed and the rest of error.
We will be glad to test Argus in full strenght.
For the position in dxp, i will forget it for the moment.
It seem that your engine have't problem with time control. The strongest it's Bmi2 isn't?

My engine still plays a little bit to quick, it should use more time at the beginning of the game and somewhat less later on.

The BMI2 version is more than twice as fast and maybe 25 Elo stronger but you need a new processor for it. Intel Haswell, Skylake or Kabylake will work, for AMD you'll need Excavator or the new RyZen processors. 25 Elo is not a lot of difference, so nothing to worry about.

Hi Joost,

Understood, i will buy soon another computer. Once again, thank for the share spirit.
We will try ihe engine with EGDB and appreciate the new strenght for us.
If possible, can you do a little comment about the strong points of Argus?
Best regards.

Catherine.

[Joost Buijs]

Hi Joost.

Please write what is the smallest number that can be entered in option egdb-cache.

I think it is set at 1024 MB at the moment, it is not very useful to make it smaller, nowadays most PC's have at least 4 to 8 GB. memory.

[Krzysztof Grzelak]

I think it is set at 1024 MB at the moment, it is not very useful to make it smaller, nowadays most PC's have at least 4 to 8 GB. memory.

That's right, and thank you for your reply. When I want to change to 512 MB program automatically sets 1024 MB.

Krzysztof.

[Joost Buijs]

Understood, i will buy soon another computer. Once again, thank for the share spirit.
We will try ihe engine with EGDB and appreciate the new strenght for us.
If possible, can you do a little comment about the strong points of Argus?

Hi Catherine,

Well, it is up to you if you want to buy another computer, laptops are usually very slow.

About my engine, I guess it is all very much the same as the other top-engines, it's only virtue is that it is faster, but not tuned as good as the others yet. I hope to get it stronger when it is tuned better and when it has patterns larger than 4x4, but this will take several months depending upon how much time I want to spend on it.

The latest version is roughly on par with Kingsrow v1.58 on 8 cores 4 GHz. sometimes it loses, sometimes it wins, this is not so bad considering the fact that I started to work on it 6 or 7 months ago.

Joost

[Joost Buijs]

I think it is set at 1024 MB at the moment, it is not very useful to make it smaller, nowadays most PC's have at least 4 to 8 GB. memory.

That's right, and thank you for your reply. When I want to change to 512 MB program automatically sets 1024 MB.

Krzysztof.

In the next version I will change it to a smaller minimum value.

Joost

[Krzysztof Grzelak]

In the next version I will change it to a smaller minimum value.

Joost

Thank you for your answer Joost. When would you like the new version.

[Catherine]

Understood, i will buy soon another computer. Once again, thank for the share spirit.
We will try ihe engine with EGDB and appreciate the new strenght for us.
If possible, can you do a little comment about the strong points of Argus?

Hi Catherine,

Well, it is up to you if you want to buy another computer, laptops are usually very slow.

About my engine, I guess it is all very much the same as the other top-engines, it's only virtue is that it is faster, but not tuned as good as the others yet. I hope to get it stronger when it is tuned better and when it has patterns larger than 4x4, but this will take several months depending upon how much time I want to spend on it.

The latest version is roughly on par with Kingsrow v1.58 on 8 cores 4 GHz. sometimes it loses, sometimes it wins, this is not so bad considering the fact that I started to work on it 6 or 7 months ago.

Joost

Hi Joost,

I have a portable Computer HP Core i3 4Go of RAM. I want to buy a Core i7 with at least 16 Go of RAM.

For your engine strenght, i see that it is faster as you said, and the conclusion that i can tell, is that the engine wich will have the larger pattern will be the best.
I tell it because when Kingsrow integrated it, it got the level of Scan and your engine so "young" and "faster" in a few months got the level of the tops.

This concept of pattern is't the secret of the new generation of strongest engine. Truus, Flits, Dam 2.2, Buggy don't have this concept integrated, everybody seeing that when a match is played they are crashed but in the past they was the best programs in the world of draughts computer.

I suppose that the speed of the engine itself has an effect on this pattern concept, it's perhaps that wich do the little difference between all the engine using this concept.

Catherine.

[Joost Buijs]

Understood, i will buy soon another computer. Once again, thank for the share spirit.
We will try ihe engine with EGDB and appreciate the new strenght for us.
If possible, can you do a little comment about the strong points of Argus?

Hi Catherine,

Well, it is up to you if you want to buy another computer, laptops are usually very slow.

About my engine, I guess it is all very much the same as the other top-engines, it's only virtue is that it is faster, but not tuned as good as the others yet. I hope to get it stronger when it is tuned better and when it has patterns larger than 4x4, but this will take several months depending upon how much time I want to spend on it.

The latest version is roughly on par with Kingsrow v1.58 on 8 cores 4 GHz. sometimes it loses, sometimes it wins, this is not so bad considering the fact that I started to work on it 6 or 7 months ago.

Joost

Hi Joost,

I have a portable Computer HP Core i3 4Go of RAM. I want to buy a Core i7 with at least 16 Go of RAM.

For your engine strenght, i see that it is faster as you said, and the conclusion that i can tell, is that the engine wich will have the larger pattern will be the best.
I tell it because when Kingsrow integrated it, it got the level of Scan and your engine so "young" and "faster" in a few months got the level of the tops.

This concept of pattern is't the secret of the new generation of strongest engine. Truus, Flits, Dam 2.2, Buggy don't have this concept integrated, everybody seeing that when a match is played they are crashed but in the past they was the best programs in the world of draughts computer.

I suppose that the speed of the engine itself has an effect on this pattern concept, it's perhaps that wich do the little difference between all the engine using this concept.

Catherine.

Automated learning with logistic regression is since 4 years in use by several chess engines and it improves the evaluation-function quite a lot without much effort, with draughts it seems to be effective as well (as Fabien proved). My opinion is that 4x4 patterns are too small to encode all information that is relevant for draughts and that larger patterns or patterns with a different shape might be better, the problem with this is that how larger the patterns get the more parameters you have to learn, for instance 4x4 patterns contain 8 fields or 3^8 = 6561 parameters, 5x5 patterns contain 12 or 13 fields that is 3^12 = 531441 parameters or 3^13 = 1594323 parameters that is 81 or 243 times as much, for modern computers this is no problem, my Othello program from 1991 already used corner patterns of 3^13 and for the hardware of that time it was no problem at all.

Joost

[Catherine]

Hi Catherine,

Well, it is up to you if you want to buy another computer, laptops are usually very slow.

About my engine, I guess it is all very much the same as the other top-engines, it's only virtue is that it is faster, but not tuned as good as the others yet. I hope to get it stronger when it is tuned better and when it has patterns larger than 4x4, but this will take several months depending upon how much time I want to spend on it.

The latest version is roughly on par with Kingsrow v1.58 on 8 cores 4 GHz. sometimes it loses, sometimes it wins, this is not so bad considering the fact that I started to work on it 6 or 7 months ago.

Joost

Hi Joost,

I have a portable Computer HP Core i3 4Go of RAM. I want to buy a Core i7 with at least 16 Go of RAM.

For your engine strenght, i see that it is faster as you said, and the conclusion that i can tell, is that the engine wich will have the larger pattern will be the best.
I tell it because when Kingsrow integrated it, it got the level of Scan and your engine so "young" and "faster" in a few months got the level of the tops.

This concept of pattern is't the secret of the new generation of strongest engine. Truus, Flits, Dam 2.2, Buggy don't have this concept integrated, everybody seeing that when a match is played they are crashed but in the past they was the best programs in the world of draughts computer.

I suppose that the speed of the engine itself has an effect on this pattern concept, it's perhaps that wich do the little difference between all the engine using this concept.

Catherine.

Automated learning with logistic regression is since 4 years in use by several chess engines and it improves the evaluation-function quite a lot without much effort, with draughts it seems to be effective as well (as Fabien proved). My opinion is that 4x4 patterns are too small to encode all information that is relevant for draughts and that larger patterns or patterns with a different shape might be better, the problem with this is that how larger the patterns get the more parameters you have to learn, for instance 4x4 patterns contain 8 fields or 3^8 = 6561 parameters, 5x5 patterns contain 12 or 13 fields that is 3^12 = 531441 parameters or 3^13 = 1594323 parameters that is 81 or 243 times as much, for modern computers this is no problem, my Othello program from 1991 already used corner patterns of 3^13 and for the hardware of that time it was no problem at all.

Joost

Hi Joost,

I see now that 4x4 patterns is like you said to small to encode draughts revelants informations. Because of several holes or patterns no exploited.
Also, create a pattern more larger will take time.
Now, what thing can compensate this weakness of 4x4 pattern ? Engine speed or what ?
Because i see that the search of your engine is so speed.
It seem that pondering increase the level of any engine because of anticipation advantage.

Thank again.
Catherine

[Krzysztof Grzelak]

Hi Joost.

I have a question for you. In the folder with the engine is a file called argusv106 bin, I understand that this is a book debut.