Laocoönen

[rusms]

It is a fact there is a limit in constructions for the real Lacoӧnen but I think there are still positions to discover.

I agree with 2nd part of your sentence, but disagree with first.

There is no limit in game itself and imaginatioon - composition is an ocean ! As I said - I have on my file 5 unpiblished Laocoons positions and 4 unhandling motives.

Sometyimes i think that we don't COMPOSE anything, because God already composed everything when created the game and all positions are just part of 40-pieces ending database. What we do - we FIND these positions.

I totally agree that dates are important for accurate references. And I also agree with "6 pieces limit" for Laocoons - thats what I thought.

However ... Follow Greece mythology, Laocoon had many heads and we must follow this too - Laocoon motive should have at least 2 clear variations and finals !

I will post more positions today.

Regards,

Alex

[rusms]

Hi, Gerrit !

Here are few more positions from my collection. They don't completely meet my personal expectations for various reasons: blockign black mans, no clear variation, quality of solution, etc, but we also should consider them. Unfortunately, Ifor any of them I don't have a date of publication and source.

#13. G. Dentroux

33.32.6.1.39.24+.

#14. F. Laurent

18.6.1.45.50+.

#15. M. Gentili

21.21.18.1.47.15+.

I also find one more myself position

#16. A. Moiseyev, KVD-2008, Cat. "F"

8.18.12.7.29.43.8.30.3+.

==========================================================
My position #16 in KVD-2008 Concourse didn't get a bad evaluation but it wasn't on top. I always thought that this motive should have better handling with less numer of pieces. Today, finally I was able to compose it. Many thanks to Gerret fopr his topic !

#17. A. Moiseyev, 1-7-2012


8.22.20.30.3(35 ABC)24.33.50+.
A (39)24+.
B (41)35+.
C (42)38+.

Respectfully,

Alex Moiseyev

[composite]

Dank allemaal voor de inspiratie. Zie http://krekwekdogt.blogspot.com/.

[rusms]

There are two Mr. A. Kuyken Laocoons handling the same motive:

Black to move


(45 ABCD)50+.
A (41)16+.
B (34/42)35+.
C (23/39/35)45+.
D (35)45+.

Wonderful motive, I like it so much!

#1. A. Kuyken

34.28.31.3+.

#2. A. Kuyken, 1991

29.317.8.38.3+.

If we are looking for "full collection" then we have to keep both positions, but if we are looking "best selected", then we have to make a hard choice. My opinion is almost evenly divided, however I think position #2, 7x8 with 3 majority jump rule enforce is slight better, although no mans on "pre-King" row.

[Lavreg]

There are two Mr. A. Kuyken Laocoons handling the same motive:

Black to move


(45 ABCD)50+.
A (41)16+.
B (34/42)35+.
C (23/39/35)45+.
D (35)45+.

Wonderful motive, I like it so much!

#1. A. Kuyken

34.28.31.3+.

#2. A. Kuyken, 1991

29.317.8.38.3+.

If we are looking for "full collection" then we have to keep both positions, but if we are looking "best selected", then we have to make a hard choice. My opinion is almost evenly divided, however I think position #2, 7x8 with 3 majority jump rule enforce is slight better, although no mans on "pre-King" row.

You are right, this is the highlight of the series. Black has 14 moves. Ten moves empty the playing field, two moves give a sharp endgame, one move leads to a endgame with two solutions (halve-sharp?) and just one gives a winnig play. I think the ultimate position.
Of course the problem with the jumps and the position which is two moves from king-row is the best.

Now back to the initial topic. The collection of Lacoönen is now five. The definition is (as Composite explained) an attack in one line (snake) with no escape.

M.J.Kuipers 1975 H.van Deinse 1926

B. Kramer,1960 H.van Meggelen

A. Katiuha 1990?

These are the five we have collected I think there must be more. Who can help us ?

[rusms]

Gerrit,

I had created a Word document with 17 positions which meet your "Laocoon criterias". I am putting now solutions (may take another 2-3 days). Give me your email address and I will send this document to you. As I said - I have 7 more positions which never being published yet and are waitng a right time to participate in future Concourses. It make take some years when all of them will be known to pulic.

Another important element - how many black mans participate in motive. It seems like 9 - is a record yet and two positions are known: Mr. H.van Meggelen was 1st pioneer + my position from PWCP-IV. I have 3 more "1 vs 9" positions and I am still trying to find "1 vs 10", but it is very possible that 9 is unbetable record.

Respectfully,

Alex Moiseyev

[Lavreg]

Gerrit,

I had created a Word document with 17 positions which meet your "Laocoon criterias". I am putting now solutions (may take another 2-3 days). Give me your email address and I will send this document to you. As I said - I have 7 more positions which never being published yet and are waitng a right time to participate in future Concourses. It make take some years when all of them will be known to pulic.

Another important element - how many black mans participate in motive. It seems like 9 - is a record yet and two positions are known: Mr. H.van Meggelen was 1st pioneer + my position from PWCP-IV. I have 3 more "1 vs 9" positions and I am still trying to find "1 vs 10", but it is very possible that 9 is unbetable record.

Respectfully,

Alex Moiseyev

Alex

Indeed the 9-position is to be beat. I have another one:

F. Martins 1962

It does not meet my definition but it is a 9-one.
I am looking forward to your e-mail. You can send it to : gerval@live.nl

With regards Gerrit

[Edwin Twiest]

Ik vond deze altijd wel speciaal...
Overbekend, maar mag toch niet onvermeld blijven vind ik

P. Baïs (Bron: HD 1965-5)

[Lavreg]

Ik vond deze altijd wel speciaal...
Overbekend, maar mag toch niet onvermeld blijven vind ik

P. Baïs (Bron: HD 1965-5)

Wel heeel toevallig. Wilde hem net op het forum plaatsen om te vragen naar de naam en plaatsingsdatum.

Bedankt Edwin

[Edwin Twiest]

Is deze al genoemd trouwens? (zoveel standen komen voorbij )
Stond volgens mij in het Damspel eind jaren 90 (97 of 98, heb de bron niet bij de hand) en staat (meen ik) op naam van J.Beeke



Wit wint door 43-38 38-33 47-41 26-21 48-43 46-41 41x05 05-19 en wit wint

[Arjen]

#3. A. Kuyken

349.9.450.44.4+.

Op zoek naar een nieuwe Laocoön, stuitte ik op deze...
Het valt niet mee om een nieuwe te maken die voldoet aan de 'strengste' eisen!

[ildjarn]

Hermelink once showed a Laocoon-like composition. All I remember was that the motive position looked something like:

[Lavreg]

Hermelink once showed a Laocoon-like composition. All I remember was that the motive position looked something like:

Bedankt Ildjarn

De correcte stand is:

F. Hermelink 1973

01.26-21 16*27 02. 33-28 22*31 03.30-24 20*29 04. 39-25 07-11 05.25*43 met dubbele vangstelling.

Omdat hij zo geniaal is komt hij in een aparte rubriek!

We will make a separate section for 8 black pieces or king or/and 2 white pieces, positons from outer space (maybe Khtar)!

[Eric Sanders]

F. Hermelink 1973

Wow

[Evgraf]

http://www.shashki.com/PNphpBB2-viewtop ... rt-30.html


http://www.shashki.com/PNphpBB2-viewtop ... t-465.html


http://www.shashki.com/PNphpBB2-viewtop ... t-510.html















http://www.shashki.com/PNphpBB2-viewtop ... t-270.html


http://minietiud.forum2x2.ru/t120p45-to ... E%F2%E8%E2