Vraagje wrote:TAILLE wrote:...
There is not made an exception-rule. In the KNDB-rules the order of the rules is important. The first rule is stronger than the second rule (unless the second rule is clearly meant to overrule the first rule).
There are two rules that are important.
1. The game is lost when one has no pieces left to play.
2. The game is draw after 16 moves in 3x1.
This is the order in which these rules are in the KNDB-rules. Because rule 1 is mentioned earlier, a winning position after exactly 16 moves is considered a win. Should rule 2 be mentioned first, the game would be a draw.
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I'm starting to doubt now. In the KNDB-rules you lose when you have no pieces left at your own move. So if the 16th move (capture) is made by the player with the ''winning position'', I would suppose first the 16th move is completed, and only after that the other player seems to have no pieces left.
But... you should notice during the game that 16 moves have been played, but you have no time to do so between completion of the move and your own turn. Conclusion: I do not know.
Thats exactly the doubt and I have. We are on the point I wanted to raise in this thread
Black to play
After 1...7-11 2.40-44 11-16 3.44-49 16-2 4.49-35 2-11 5.45-34 11-2 6.34-39 2-7 7.50-45 7-2 8.35-49 2-16 9.45-40 16-7 10.39-34 7-11 11.34-1 11-2 12.40-34 2-16 13.34-29 16-11 14.49-44 11x50 15.1-6 50-45 16.6-1 45x23
31 plies have been played and we have reached the following position :
White to play
If the rules defines this position as a winning position the result is clearly a win for white. May be it is the case in KNDB rules. With the international rules however this position is not a winning position and another ply has to be played.
What will now happen with the following ply ?
As soon as the 01x45 32th ply is played :
1) Black calls the referee saying that 32 plies have been played
2) White calls the referee saying that a winning position have been reached
We have two scenarios to solve this problem
1) black scenario : it is impossible to detect we will reach a winning position without first executing completely the following move. As a consequence the event "32 plies have been played" comes before the event "a winning position have been reached" and the game is a draw
2) white scenario : the events "32 plies have been played" and "a winning position have been reached" arrived exactly at the same time. In this scenario we have another problem : what rule have to be applied, the "General rule" or the "Exception rule". Here again we have two sub scenarios depending you are black or white.
If I were a referee and I have to solve this problem I will say : "the rules is not quite clear in this area; it is possible I am wrong but, considering the "spirit" of the game, I decide it is a win for white".
Of course it is not satisfactory but at least it makes sense.
