Dear draught friends!
Did the responsibles of FMJD search the reasons that make chess's prices (for tournaments) are 10, 50, or 100 times higher than thoses of draught?
I think, the FMJD must find the ways to interest to draught countries like Koweit, Arabie Saoudite, England, United States where chess gains it's best sponsors because chess is not better than draught (far from it!). There must be draught federations in these countries and why not to organize a draught exhibition tournament in Koweit.
In the other hand, i think it will be interesting for FMJD to help some African countries like Burkina Faso, Niger where draught is very popular, to have their federation and affiliated to FMJD.
Best regards.
Draught vs Chess
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Nicolas Guibert
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Wed Nov 13, 2002 17:28
- Contact:
I believe there are good ideas in your post !
Especially in African countries where there are already many players, there MUST be federations.
Here in France, the game of Go is growing steadily and has more members than draughts. The reason I believe is to be found in the image of the game : Draughts is seen as an old child game whereas Go is a new "exotic" and interesting game. Probably, in countries like the United States, England, Koweit, etc., the international draughts can be shown as such a new "exotic" interesting and fashionable game, and hence attract many players there.
Don't forget however that in the United States, Chess has failed to take a good place after Fischer. I don't know the reason, but that's a fact. Try and find an American Chess player among the first world 100. I think you cannot !
Especially in African countries where there are already many players, there MUST be federations.
Here in France, the game of Go is growing steadily and has more members than draughts. The reason I believe is to be found in the image of the game : Draughts is seen as an old child game whereas Go is a new "exotic" and interesting game. Probably, in countries like the United States, England, Koweit, etc., the international draughts can be shown as such a new "exotic" interesting and fashionable game, and hence attract many players there.
Don't forget however that in the United States, Chess has failed to take a good place after Fischer. I don't know the reason, but that's a fact. Try and find an American Chess player among the first world 100. I think you cannot !
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A.Presman
- Posts: 2132
- Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 16:43
- Real name: Alexander Presman
- Location: the Netherlands
The round (simplified ) is always the same:
Publicity -> Interest of sponsors -> Money -> Professional organisation -> Publicity
It can be flat and turn on the same level, but it can be spiral and work as:
More Publicity -> More Interest of sponsors -> More Money -> More Professional organisation -> More Publicity
Put "Less" instead of "More" and you have a third way. [img]images/smilies/icon_sad.gif[/img]
Chess turned on the "flat" level indeed before Fisher created some break in one link - "Money". And than Chess got their upcoming spiral.
How do we arrange our break? And in which link?
Publicity -> Interest of sponsors -> Money -> Professional organisation -> Publicity
It can be flat and turn on the same level, but it can be spiral and work as:
More Publicity -> More Interest of sponsors -> More Money -> More Professional organisation -> More Publicity
Put "Less" instead of "More" and you have a third way. [img]images/smilies/icon_sad.gif[/img]
Chess turned on the "flat" level indeed before Fisher created some break in one link - "Money". And than Chess got their upcoming spiral.
How do we arrange our break? And in which link?
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JCM
Well, I think that draughts are not as successful as chess because of the lack of international common rules.
Every region of the world has its own rules !
How can you manage to make a world championship with 10 or more variants ?
Also, another point is that there is no sponsor for a computer program able to beat the best players.
Look at the publicity Deep Thought gave to the game of chess in the States.
Did you know that Deep Blue was one of the most known personality is US ?
JC Meyrignac
Every region of the world has its own rules !
How can you manage to make a world championship with 10 or more variants ?
Also, another point is that there is no sponsor for a computer program able to beat the best players.
Look at the publicity Deep Thought gave to the game of chess in the States.
Did you know that Deep Blue was one of the most known personality is US ?
JC Meyrignac
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Guest
I totally agree with the following two points.
a) Draughts is not perceived as "deep" or "intellectual" as chess or Go.
(I am not saying it is so, I only state what I think is the general
public perception)
b) Definitely, a part of the problem is the many diffierent local rules.
This does not help to global integration.
Regards.
a) Draughts is not perceived as "deep" or "intellectual" as chess or Go.
(I am not saying it is so, I only state what I think is the general
public perception)
b) Definitely, a part of the problem is the many diffierent local rules.
This does not help to global integration.
Regards.
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chessdrummer
- Posts: 12
- Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 23:14
- Location: USA
- Contact:
Chess vs. Draughts
Please allow me to speak on this topic. I have written articles and newsbriefs on many of these topics pertaining to chess.
As a chessplayer (not a draughts player), some good points for chess have been made... common rules, charismatic figures, and the mystique of chess. Of course, I have my preference, but that is not to say that draughts is not an enriching and exciting mind sport in its own right. I do believe that Nicolas made an interesting point about the image of draughts being a "child's game." That is certainly the perception in the U.S. and conversely, chess gets an image of an "intellectual" game. I personally have enough respect for the draughts to take it as a serious mind sport.
Rightly or wrongly, the rules of chess increases its intrigue. Although I must say that one can learn chess in one hour's time (takes much longer to master), it is played by many who are simply intrigued at its nature. Actually the nature of chess is war or combat! The characterization of the pieces also add to this idea... it is a puzzle and one needs to coordinate diverse forces to achieve an end (e.g., football match). I also believe that in checkers there are quite a few more draws which may dampen the appeal. Even in chess... we are trying to prevent "Grandmaster draws," games which end prematurely (between 5-15 moves).
Now in terms of regional interest... it appears that chess is popular in Africa in the places where draughts is not and vice versa. Much can be made of the historical connections and the fact that chess is dominant in Anglophone Africa while draughts is king in Francophone Africa. I'm not sure of the history, but it would make for an interesting study. It is interesting that England is not one of the strongest draught nations. Perhaps draughts history came from the similarities of other board games played in Africa. I understand that "el-quirkat" was the draught game the Moors played... the Moors populated the centers of learning in West and Saharan Africa in the 8th century and playing board games was a symbol of erudition. The descendents of the Moors driven from Spain are largely in what is Francophone West Africa.
In terms of prices... that's a complicated issue, but it goes to an earlier point made about the prestige chess has had for a long time. It is not quite in the league of golf or tennis. Chess tournaments in the U.S. are attended by every imaginable person and large tournaments can draw 1000-1500 players at $200/player. Our success has been in the scholastic arena. In a week, we will have our "SuperNationals" tournament which will attract 5000 schoolage children competing for different schools. However, we have trouble retaining young players in the U.S.
In the professional chess world, we are struggling for sponsors, but it is not because the "Fischer craze" faded. It is because of structural problems and the fact that we are still attempting to unify the world crown. Garry Kasparov, the world's number one-rated player for the last 20 has retired from professional chess. However, he was not the World Champion and other players are making that claim. Thus, regional chess is still operating as normal, but our international body (FIDE) is having problems organizing the unification process.
Around the world, we have many young teenage Grandmasters who rank among the world's best players. The top U.S. player is 17-year old Hikaru Nakamura (FIDE rating: 2657, #43), who came to the U.S. from Japan at age 2. He is in the top 50 of players in the world and is the current U.S. Champion. Many compare him to Bobby Fischer because he has broken many of his records and has the same fearless determination.
There is also 13-year old Magnus Carlsen (2548, #304) of Norway, 17-year old Teimour Radjabov (2673, #29) of Azerbaijan, 15-year old Sergey Karjakin (2635, #64) of the Ukraine carrying the mantel for the next generation of players. There are many other young stars dotting the chess landscape (including 18-year old Andrei Volokitin of the Ukraine 2679, #24) with the fast-rising India (behind world's #2 Viswanathan Anand) and China producing lots of strong, young players. While Africa has some strong players, the federations struggle and it is expensive to travel to major tournaments. These issues often are discussed in the FIDE assembly.
Chess still maintains a very strong following and most countries have federations. We also have the Olympiad tournament every two years which pit nation vs. nation. You may have something like that in draughts. Kasparov's retirement is a blow and as GM Maurice Ashley stated to me, it will take a "driving force" to replace the spirit that Kasparov brought to chess. Perhaps draughts need the same.
As a chessplayer (not a draughts player), some good points for chess have been made... common rules, charismatic figures, and the mystique of chess. Of course, I have my preference, but that is not to say that draughts is not an enriching and exciting mind sport in its own right. I do believe that Nicolas made an interesting point about the image of draughts being a "child's game." That is certainly the perception in the U.S. and conversely, chess gets an image of an "intellectual" game. I personally have enough respect for the draughts to take it as a serious mind sport.
Rightly or wrongly, the rules of chess increases its intrigue. Although I must say that one can learn chess in one hour's time (takes much longer to master), it is played by many who are simply intrigued at its nature. Actually the nature of chess is war or combat! The characterization of the pieces also add to this idea... it is a puzzle and one needs to coordinate diverse forces to achieve an end (e.g., football match). I also believe that in checkers there are quite a few more draws which may dampen the appeal. Even in chess... we are trying to prevent "Grandmaster draws," games which end prematurely (between 5-15 moves).
Now in terms of regional interest... it appears that chess is popular in Africa in the places where draughts is not and vice versa. Much can be made of the historical connections and the fact that chess is dominant in Anglophone Africa while draughts is king in Francophone Africa. I'm not sure of the history, but it would make for an interesting study. It is interesting that England is not one of the strongest draught nations. Perhaps draughts history came from the similarities of other board games played in Africa. I understand that "el-quirkat" was the draught game the Moors played... the Moors populated the centers of learning in West and Saharan Africa in the 8th century and playing board games was a symbol of erudition. The descendents of the Moors driven from Spain are largely in what is Francophone West Africa.
In terms of prices... that's a complicated issue, but it goes to an earlier point made about the prestige chess has had for a long time. It is not quite in the league of golf or tennis. Chess tournaments in the U.S. are attended by every imaginable person and large tournaments can draw 1000-1500 players at $200/player. Our success has been in the scholastic arena. In a week, we will have our "SuperNationals" tournament which will attract 5000 schoolage children competing for different schools. However, we have trouble retaining young players in the U.S.
In the professional chess world, we are struggling for sponsors, but it is not because the "Fischer craze" faded. It is because of structural problems and the fact that we are still attempting to unify the world crown. Garry Kasparov, the world's number one-rated player for the last 20 has retired from professional chess. However, he was not the World Champion and other players are making that claim. Thus, regional chess is still operating as normal, but our international body (FIDE) is having problems organizing the unification process.
Around the world, we have many young teenage Grandmasters who rank among the world's best players. The top U.S. player is 17-year old Hikaru Nakamura (FIDE rating: 2657, #43), who came to the U.S. from Japan at age 2. He is in the top 50 of players in the world and is the current U.S. Champion. Many compare him to Bobby Fischer because he has broken many of his records and has the same fearless determination.
There is also 13-year old Magnus Carlsen (2548, #304) of Norway, 17-year old Teimour Radjabov (2673, #29) of Azerbaijan, 15-year old Sergey Karjakin (2635, #64) of the Ukraine carrying the mantel for the next generation of players. There are many other young stars dotting the chess landscape (including 18-year old Andrei Volokitin of the Ukraine 2679, #24) with the fast-rising India (behind world's #2 Viswanathan Anand) and China producing lots of strong, young players. While Africa has some strong players, the federations struggle and it is expensive to travel to major tournaments. These issues often are discussed in the FIDE assembly.
Chess still maintains a very strong following and most countries have federations. We also have the Olympiad tournament every two years which pit nation vs. nation. You may have something like that in draughts. Kasparov's retirement is a blow and as GM Maurice Ashley stated to me, it will take a "driving force" to replace the spirit that Kasparov brought to chess. Perhaps draughts need the same.
Dear Friends,
This is from the Philippines.
I think there is not an iota of logic in comparing draughts to chess. Both have their own different and unique subtlety and mystique. If we keep on comparing why don't we compare boxing to karate?, basketball to volleyball? Why did we stand complacent to the development of these sports? Why do we single out the existence of chess and draughts? Is there any fear on the side of chess players and enthusiasts if draughts can pick up and become more popular?
I totally disagree with the idea that the nature of chess is war or combat because its nowhere in any combat where the Queen has the concentration of all powers to attack and bishops in real combat do not capture but stay in the pulpit to officiate masses and other religious rites of the battalion!!!
To be sober and objective, these two sports involve analyses and wisdom, and the same human mental faculties are being used for both.
Let us stop comparing, instead we will work for their development. To do otherwise is counterproductive.
This is from the Philippines.
I think there is not an iota of logic in comparing draughts to chess. Both have their own different and unique subtlety and mystique. If we keep on comparing why don't we compare boxing to karate?, basketball to volleyball? Why did we stand complacent to the development of these sports? Why do we single out the existence of chess and draughts? Is there any fear on the side of chess players and enthusiasts if draughts can pick up and become more popular?
I totally disagree with the idea that the nature of chess is war or combat because its nowhere in any combat where the Queen has the concentration of all powers to attack and bishops in real combat do not capture but stay in the pulpit to officiate masses and other religious rites of the battalion!!!
To be sober and objective, these two sports involve analyses and wisdom, and the same human mental faculties are being used for both.
Let us stop comparing, instead we will work for their development. To do otherwise is counterproductive.
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Rudi Azimullah
- Posts: 192
- Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2003 18:39
- Location: Paramaribo
- Contact:
Draudgt vs Chess
All:
Definitely chess is preceived as an intelecctual game compared to draught. Many parents will stimulate their kids to play chess if it comes to a mind sport as this is the best known mindsport....and it carries some status if your kid plays chess. I definitely don't think this is true, but that 's how it is preceived.
Draught has a lot of advantageous to get it promoted, compared to chess:
1. Easier to learn the basics. Within a few minutes you can get little kids playing draught.
2. Boards and pieces are easily made (home made triplex boards and soft drink caps for pieces). This is probably the main reason the game is popular in less-developed coungtries
There are also disadvantages:
1. Once you know the basics of draught it becomes quite a complex game. This means that proper guidance of the druaght pupils is required.
The biggest set-back in draught is probably the local and international organizations behind this games.
1. Except for Holland and some of the old USSR sates, there is almost no structured program for developing the youth. Most people learn draught at a relatively old age.
2. Internal struggles at all levels of the draught organizations
3. Lack of propor promotional activities
These set-backs will not attrack any sponsor..If I was to sponsor an organization it better be one that is honest, work with kids and earns it respect from the community.
Definitely chess is preceived as an intelecctual game compared to draught. Many parents will stimulate their kids to play chess if it comes to a mind sport as this is the best known mindsport....and it carries some status if your kid plays chess. I definitely don't think this is true, but that 's how it is preceived.
Draught has a lot of advantageous to get it promoted, compared to chess:
1. Easier to learn the basics. Within a few minutes you can get little kids playing draught.
2. Boards and pieces are easily made (home made triplex boards and soft drink caps for pieces). This is probably the main reason the game is popular in less-developed coungtries
There are also disadvantages:
1. Once you know the basics of draught it becomes quite a complex game. This means that proper guidance of the druaght pupils is required.
The biggest set-back in draught is probably the local and international organizations behind this games.
1. Except for Holland and some of the old USSR sates, there is almost no structured program for developing the youth. Most people learn draught at a relatively old age.
2. Internal struggles at all levels of the draught organizations
3. Lack of propor promotional activities
These set-backs will not attrack any sponsor..If I was to sponsor an organization it better be one that is honest, work with kids and earns it respect from the community.
Rudi Azimullah
Paramaribo, Suriname
Paramaribo, Suriname
