Internet engine matches

Discussion about development of draughts in the time of computer and Internet.
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Ed Gilbert
Posts: 854
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 14:53
Real name: Ed Gilbert
Location: Morristown, NJ USA
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Re: Internet engine matches

Post by Ed Gilbert » Mon Apr 06, 2020 13:14

Ed play through dxp. Don't play through Tmgr. You'll only see differences in results.
Doing it with DXP is very tedious. You have to run the scan program, drag its program window to be overlapped with the other scan windows on the desktop, open kingsrow, position is program window, and go through all the mouse clicks to establish a DXP connection and start a match. Doing this 16 times is a lot of work.

The only results I have with both DXP and Tmgr are 75 moves/1 minute, 2-move openings. I get elo diffs of 4.7 and 6.2, so 1.5 elo difference between the two matches, which is small.

Kingsrow 1.61 vs Scan 3.1
75 moves in 1 minute using DXP

[ 0]: 0.508 score, 790 games, 16 wins, 4 losses, 770 draws, 0 unk
[ 1]: 0.507 score, 790 games, 14 wins, 3 losses, 772 draws, 1 unk
[ 2]: 0.504 score, 790 games, 14 wins, 7 losses, 769 draws, 0 unk
[ 3]: 0.508 score, 790 games, 15 wins, 2 losses, 773 draws, 0 unk
[ 4]: 0.511 score, 790 games, 24 wins, 6 losses, 759 draws, 1 unk
[ 5]: 0.502 score, 790 games, 9 wins, 6 losses, 775 draws, 0 unk
[ 6]: 0.504 score, 790 games, 12 wins, 5 losses, 772 draws, 1 unk
[ 7]: 0.506 score, 790 games, 12 wins, 3 losses, 775 draws, 0 unk
[ 8]: 0.504 score, 790 games, 15 wins, 9 losses, 766 draws, 0 unk
[ 9]: 0.507 score, 790 games, 14 wins, 3 losses, 773 draws, 0 unk
[10]: 0.510 score, 790 games, 22 wins, 7 losses, 759 draws, 2 unk
[11]: 0.506 score, 790 games, 16 wins, 6 losses, 768 draws, 0 unk
[12]: 0.504 score, 790 games, 13 wins, 6 losses, 771 draws, 0 unk
[13]: 0.510 score, 790 games, 18 wins, 3 losses, 768 draws, 1 unk
[14]: 0.508 score, 790 games, 17 wins, 4 losses, 769 draws, 0 unk
[15]: 0.508 score, 790 games, 16 wins, 3 losses, 770 draws, 1 unk
total 0.507 score, 12640 games, 247 wins, 77 losses, 12309 draws, 7 unk
elo diff 4.7

Kingsrow settings:
hashtable: 256 mb
egdb: 8 pieces, 5500 mb cache
search threads: 1
pondering: off
book: best

Scan settings:
book = true
book-ply = 4
book-margin = 0
threads = 1
tt-size = 24
bb-size = 6


Match stats Kingsrow 1.61 vs. Scan 3.1 (using Tmgr)

[ 1]: 0.507 score, 790 games, 17 wins, 6 losses, 767 draws, 0 unk
[ 2]: 0.513 score, 790 games, 22 wins, 1 losses, 767 draws, 0 unk
[ 3]: 0.508 score, 790 games, 17 wins, 4 losses, 769 draws, 0 unk
[ 4]: 0.508 score, 790 games, 17 wins, 5 losses, 768 draws, 0 unk
[ 5]: 0.508 score, 790 games, 15 wins, 3 losses, 772 draws, 0 unk
[ 6]: 0.510 score, 790 games, 19 wins, 3 losses, 768 draws, 0 unk
[ 7]: 0.505 score, 790 games, 13 wins, 5 losses, 771 draws, 1 unk
[ 8]: 0.509 score, 790 games, 15 wins, 0 losses, 775 draws, 0 unk
[ 9]: 0.512 score, 790 games, 22 wins, 3 losses, 765 draws, 0 unk
[10]: 0.508 score, 790 games, 16 wins, 3 losses, 771 draws, 0 unk
[11]: 0.510 score, 790 games, 21 wins, 5 losses, 764 draws, 0 unk
[12]: 0.508 score, 790 games, 13 wins, 1 losses, 775 draws, 1 unk
[13]: 0.510 score, 790 games, 18 wins, 2 losses, 769 draws, 1 unk
[14]: 0.510 score, 790 games, 18 wins, 2 losses, 770 draws, 0 unk
[15]: 0.506 score, 790 games, 15 wins, 5 losses, 770 draws, 0 unk
[16]: 0.511 score, 790 games, 19 wins, 2 losses, 769 draws, 0 unk
total 0.509 score, 12640 games, 277 wins, 50 losses, 12310 draws, 3 unk
elo diff 6.2
LOS 1.00

Match control file:

[General]
start-pos-file = d:\tmgr\2move_ballots.pdn
games = 790
parallel-matches = 16
time = 60
moves = 75
#inc = 0.5
egdb-wld-path = d:\db_intl\wld_v2

[Engine]
engine-dir = d:\kr_hub
engine-command = d:\kr_hub\kr_hub
draw-count = 5
draw-pieces = 10
draw-score = 0.07
win-score = 20
set-param egdb-wld-pieces = 8
set-param egdb-wld-mem = 5500
set-param egdb-wld-path = d:\db_intl\wld_v2
set-param threads = 1
set-param tt-mem = 256
set-param tt-load = false
set-param book = true
set-param book-quality = best

[Engine]
engine-command = "\projects\scan_31\scan.exe hub"
engine-dir = \projects\scan_31
draw-count = 5
draw-pieces = 7
draw-score = 0.0
win-score = 80
set-param tt-size = 24
set-param bb-size = 6
set-param book = true
set-param book-ply = 4
set-param book-margin = 0
set-param threads = 1

Krzysztof Grzelak
Posts: 1307
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 17:16
Real name: Krzysztof Grzelak

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Mon Apr 06, 2020 13:28

I use dxp and I have match results.I have no other.

Krzysztof Grzelak
Posts: 1307
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 17:16
Real name: Krzysztof Grzelak

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Tue Apr 07, 2020 00:13

Match KINGSROW - SCAN (3-move ballots)

Kingsrow 1.61 vs. Scan 3.1 8 wins, 3 losses, 974 draws, 1 unknowns

Kingsrow 1.61 x64

Opening Book = Best Moves
HashTable Size = 512 MB
DB cache Size = 30000 MB
The base ends = 8 Pieces
Threads = 8
Time = 1 Min / 75 Moves

Scan 3.1 x64

Variant = normal
Book = true
Book-ply = 4
Book-margin = 0
Threads = 8
Tt-size = 26
Bb-size = 6
Time = 1 Min / 75 Moves

Match played on a computer with the equipment.

Processor - AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X
Hard disc - Samsung 860 Pro SSD 1 TB
Memory of frames - 128 GB DDR4 2400
System - Windows 10 64 bit Pro
Attachments
dxpgames.pdn
Match Kingsrow - Scan
(940.64 KiB) Downloaded 280 times

Krzysztof Grzelak
Posts: 1307
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 17:16
Real name: Krzysztof Grzelak

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Sun May 24, 2020 22:51

Match KINGSROW - SCAN (2-move ballots)

Damage 15.3 vs. Kingsrow 1.61 0 wins, 12 losses, 146 draws, 0 unknowns

Damage 15.3 x64

Variant = normal
Book = 0
Threads = 8
Tt-shared = 1
Tt-size = 25
Bb-cache = 5
Bb-size = 7
Bb-preload = 7
Time = 1 Min / 75 Moves

Kingsrow 1.61 x64

Opening Book = Best Moves
HashTable Size = 512 MB
DB cache Size = 30000 MB
The base ends = 8 Pieces
Threads = 8
Time = 1 Min / 75 Moves

Match played on a computer with the equipment.

Processor - AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X
Hard disc - Samsung 860 Pro SSD 1 TB
Memory of frames - 128 GB DDR4 2400
System - Windows 10 64 bit Pro
Attachments
dxpgames.pdn
Match Damage - Kingsrow
(152.85 KiB) Downloaded 297 times

BertTuyt
Posts: 1573
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 19:42

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by BertTuyt » Mon May 25, 2020 09:29

Krzysztof, thanks for sharing and testing. I will upload in the evening an engine update (also with a new weights file).
Im interested in new test results from your side, hope to get below the 20 ELO points difference compared with Kingsrow.

Bertt

Krzysztof Grzelak
Posts: 1307
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 17:16
Real name: Krzysztof Grzelak

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Wed May 27, 2020 13:19

Match DAMAGE - KINGSROW (2-move ballots)

Damage 15.3 vs. Kingsrow 1.61 0 wins, 16 losses, 142 draws, 0 unknowns

Damage 15.3 x64

Variant = normal
Book = 0
Threads = 8
Tt-shared = 1
Tt-size = 25
Bb-cache = 5
Bb-size = 7
Bb-preload = 7
Time = 1 Min / 75 Moves

Kingsrow 1.61 x64

Opening Book = Best Moves
HashTable Size = 512 MB
DB cache Size = 30000 MB
The base ends = 8 Pieces
Threads = 8
Time = 1 Min / 75 Moves

Match played on a computer with the equipment.

Processor - AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X
Hard disc - Samsung 860 Pro SSD 1 TB
Memory of frames - 128 GB DDR4 2400
System - Windows 10 64 bit Pro
Attachments
dxpgames.pdn
(151.95 KiB) Downloaded 297 times

Krzysztof Grzelak
Posts: 1307
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 17:16
Real name: Krzysztof Grzelak

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:48

I never played such a match as far as until today.Unfortunately results are not well-tried.

Match Flits - Truus (2-move ballots)

Flits 3.02 - Truus voor Windows 1.0 13 wins, 11 losses, 132 draws, 2 unknowns

Flits 3.02 x32

Threads = 1
Pondering = off
Transpositietabel(Mb) = 768 MB
The base ends = 6 Pieces
Time = 5 Min / 75 Moves


Truus voor Windows 1.0 x32

Threads = 1
The base ends = 6 Pieces
Partijen database ruimte (MB) = 64
Stellingen ruimte (16K) = 10000
Time = 5 Min / 75 Moves


Match played on a computer with the equipment.

Processor - AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X
Hard disc - Samsung 970 EVO Plus NVMe M.2 SSD 2 TB
Memory of frames - 128 GB DDR4 2400
System - Windows 10 64 bit Pro

Krzysztof Grzelak
Posts: 1307
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 17:16
Real name: Krzysztof Grzelak

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Fri Apr 02, 2021 11:59

Pdn file from the match Flits - Truus.
Attachments
dxpgames.pdn
(148.41 KiB) Downloaded 229 times

pontel
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2021 21:48
Real name: João Anselmo Pontel

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by pontel » Sat Aug 21, 2021 22:36

Krzysztof Grzelak wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:40
Match SJENDE BLYN - KINGSROW (2-move ballots)

Postponed to another date.


Download unavailable!
Does anyone still have the file?

pontel
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2021 21:48
Real name: João Anselmo Pontel

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by pontel » Sat Aug 21, 2021 22:54

pontel wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 22:36
Krzysztof Grzelak wrote:
Sat Oct 05, 2019 12:40
Match SJENDE BLYN - KINGSROW (2-move ballots)

Postponed to another date.


Download unavailable!
Does anyone still have the file?


Dear Krzysztof Grzelak, please disregard the previous question as it was hasty.

As for the match between Kingsrow and Sjende Blyn, is it still possible?

Grateful!!!

Krzysztof Grzelak
Posts: 1307
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 17:16
Real name: Krzysztof Grzelak

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Sun Aug 22, 2021 07:42

pontel wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 22:54
Dear Krzysztof Grzelak, please disregard the previous question as it was hasty.

As for the match between Kingsrow and Sjende Blyn, is it still possible?

Grateful!!!
Yes, such a match is possible.

Krzysztof Grzelak
Posts: 1307
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 17:16
Real name: Krzysztof Grzelak

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Sat Oct 02, 2021 13:46

Match KINGSROW - DAMAGE (2-move ballots)

Kingsrow 1.63 vs. Damage 16.1 NNUE 1 wins, 0 losses, 157 draws, 0 unknowns

Kingsrow 1.63 x64

Opening Book = Best Moves
HashTable Size = 512 MB
DB cache Size = 30000 MB
The base ends = 8 Pieces
Threads = 16
Time = 1 Min / 100 Moves

Damage 16.1 NNUE x64

Book = 0n
Threads = 16
NNUE-file = nn_20210328.gnn
TT-persistent = On
TT-size = 24
BB-cache = 5
BB-size = 7
BB-preload = 7
The base ends = 7 Pieces
Time = 1 Min / 100 Moves

Match played on a computer with the equipment.

Processor - AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X
Hard disc - Samsung 970 EVO Plus NVMe M.2 SSD 2 TB
Memory of frames - 128 GB DDR4 2400
System - Windows 10 64 bit Pro
Attachments
dxpgames.pdn
(155.44 KiB) Downloaded 209 times

Krzysztof Grzelak
Posts: 1307
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 17:16
Real name: Krzysztof Grzelak

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Sat Oct 15, 2022 19:59

Match KINGSROW - ARES (2-move ballots)

Kingsrow 1.63 vs Ares 1.53c 0 wins, 1 losses, 157 draws, 0 unknowns

Kingsrow 1.63 x64

Threads = 16
Opening Book = Best Moves
Pondering = On
HashTable Size = 512 MB
The base ends = 6 Pieces
Time = 1 Min / 120 Moves

Ares 1.53c x64

Threads = 16
Book = On
TT-size = 32
Bucket-size = 4
Ponder = On
The base ends = 6 Pieces
Time = 1 Min / 120 Moves

Match played on a computer with the equipment.

Processor - AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X
Hard disc - Samsung 860 Pro SSD 1 TB
Memory of frames - 128 GB DDR4 2400
System - Windows 10 64 bit Pro
Attachments
dxpgames.pdn
(157.88 KiB) Downloaded 88 times

BertTuyt
Posts: 1573
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 19:42

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by BertTuyt » Sat Oct 15, 2022 22:55

The win (and only win in this match) of Ares in game 123 is a little strange.
The move from KR 43. 20-15 was definitely wrong and losing, whereas 43. 28-22 27x18 44. 42-37 41x43 45. 49x38 is a draw.

I expect that with 16-cores KR would not have search problems.
Ed, can you give some light, is this a bug, or something you also can not reproduce?

Krzysztof, anyway thanks for organizing and sharing.

Bert
Last edited by BertTuyt on Sat Oct 15, 2022 23:01, edited 1 time in total.

Krzysztof Grzelak
Posts: 1307
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 17:16
Real name: Krzysztof Grzelak

Re: Internet engine matches

Post by Krzysztof Grzelak » Sat Oct 15, 2022 22:57

Match KINGSROW - ARES (2-move ballots)

Kingsrow 1.63 vs Ares 1.53c 2 wins, 0 losses, 156 draws, 0 unknowns

Kingsrow 1.63 x64

Threads = 16
Opening Book = Best Moves
Pondering = On
HashTable Size = 512 MB
The base ends = 6 Pieces
Time = 3 Min / 100 Moves

Ares 1.53c x64

Threads = 16
Book = On
TT-size = 32
Bucket-size = 4
Ponder = On
The base ends = 6 Pieces
Time = 3 Min / 100 Moves

Match played on a computer with the equipment.

Processor - AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X
Hard disc - Samsung 860 Pro SSD 1 TB
Memory of frames - 128 GB DDR4 2400
System - Windows 10 64 bit Pro
Attachments
dxpgames.pdn
(156.55 KiB) Downloaded 83 times

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