Search Algorithm
Re: Search Algorithm
You are right I reversed Win and Loss, in the mean time I have corrected this.
Thanks for posting your remark.
Bert
Thanks for posting your remark.
Bert
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- Posts: 44
- Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 13:26
- Real name: Walter Thoen
Re: Search Algorithm
Hi Bert,
I made an analysis of the 4 losses that Damage suffered in the ply 16 match. See the analysis attached.
It is of course a very small number of games but my assessment would be that the losses are more the result of inadequate evaluation than that the 16 ply search was inadequate. Especially the evaluation of breakthrough versus material balance seems to be a problem.
In any event, I enjoyed analysing the games. Keep posting more match results!
Regards,
Walter
I made an analysis of the 4 losses that Damage suffered in the ply 16 match. See the analysis attached.
It is of course a very small number of games but my assessment would be that the losses are more the result of inadequate evaluation than that the 16 ply search was inadequate. Especially the evaluation of breakthrough versus material balance seems to be a problem.
In any event, I enjoyed analysing the games. Keep posting more match results!
Regards,
Walter
- Attachments
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- Damage analysis of games lost.pdf
- (240.18 KiB) Downloaded 334 times
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- Posts: 44
- Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 13:26
- Real name: Walter Thoen
Re: Search Algorithm
I analysed the first two losses in the PF14 match as well.
- Attachments
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- PF14 Match analysis.pdf
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- Real name: Walter Thoen
Re: Search Algorithm
Analysing these losses sometimes makes you wonder "what was he thinking?!"
I think that I will have to analyse some wins as well to be fair to Damage.
Walter
I think that I will have to analyse some wins as well to be fair to Damage.
Walter
Re: Search Algorithm
Walter, very much appreciate your analysis and feedback.
As already mentioned in another post, Im now running 10 Min/Game matches, and expect to have time during the weekend to dig somewhat deeper in the specific positions you analyzed.
As soon as I have several match results, and also the first "insights" in the specific Depth-ELO curve, i will share and post all results.
Bert
Yes, also for me it is sometimes/often a mystery what happens within Damage under the surface.Analyzing these losses sometimes makes you wonder "what was he thinking?!"
As already mentioned in another post, Im now running 10 Min/Game matches, and expect to have time during the weekend to dig somewhat deeper in the specific positions you analyzed.
I have now finished the first 10 Min/Game Match (with Damage 16 Ply).In any event, I enjoyed analyzing the games. Keep posting more match results!
As soon as I have several match results, and also the first "insights" in the specific Depth-ELO curve, i will share and post all results.
Bert
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- Posts: 44
- Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 13:26
- Real name: Walter Thoen
Re: Search Algorithm
I made some text corrections
Walter
Walter
- Attachments
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- Damage analysis of games lost.pdf
- (240.75 KiB) Downloaded 326 times
Re: Search Algorithm
Herewith the first results of the Matches in which Damage plays with fixed depth search and Kingsrow has 10 Min/Game.
In the mean time I also have started with the 22 ply Match.
After the 22 Ply Math I guess some (preliminary) conclusions can be drawn.
I'm very much interested in the analysis (Wallter you are welcomed...) why Damage and Kingsrow lost some games (especially in the ply 20 Match).
Attached .pdn match files.
As the number of attachment is limited to 5, I will in another post include the 20 Ply Match pdn and excel file.
Bert
In the mean time I also have started with the 22 ply Match.
After the 22 Ply Math I guess some (preliminary) conclusions can be drawn.
Code: Select all
Depth ELO W L D U P
12 176 74 0 84 0 0,27
14 104 46 0 112 0 0,35
16 49 23 1 134 0 0,43
18 38 18 1 138 0 0,45
20 2 6 5 147 0 0.50
Attached .pdn match files.
As the number of attachment is limited to 5, I will in another post include the 20 Ply Match pdn and excel file.
Bert
- Attachments
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- dxpgames_10P18.pdn
- (158.07 KiB) Downloaded 259 times
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- dxpgames_10P16.pdn
- (157.29 KiB) Downloaded 267 times
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- dxpgames_10P14.pdn
- (158.04 KiB) Downloaded 273 times
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- dxpgames_10P12.pdn
- (155.37 KiB) Downloaded 260 times
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- DDD-20130202.png (14.72 KiB) Viewed 8992 times
Re: Search Algorithm
And here the 20 Ply Match pdn and xls file.
Bert
Bert
- Attachments
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- Fixed Depth MutiCore.xls
- (59.5 KiB) Downloaded 298 times
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- dxpgames_10P20.pdn
- (159.03 KiB) Downloaded 266 times
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- Posts: 44
- Joined: Wed Nov 17, 2010 13:26
- Real name: Walter Thoen
Re: Search Algorithm
Bert,I'm very much interested in the analysis (Wallter you are welcomed...) why Damage and Kingsrow lost some games (especially in the ply 20 Match).
See attached the analysis.
I have concentrated again on the Damage losses as it might be easier to learn from them than from wins.
I might look at the Kingsrow losses later, but I am also having fun implementing GUIDE (exchanging moves between webpage and engine works now).
Regards,
Walter
- Attachments
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- 10P20 Match Analysis.pdf
- (441.64 KiB) Downloaded 322 times
Re: Search Algorithm
Walter, thank you very much for the analysis so far.
I will do some re-searches with Damage later this week, to really understand what he was thinking.
In the mean time I have started with the 22 Ply search, which will be finalized on Tuesday.
So hereafter I will take some time for your analysis.
After this I will also start the 24 Ply search, which will take 8 days or so.
Most likely the 24 ply Match will be the last in a series for now, as I want to focus next on the "why does Damage sometimes loose", and how to improve.
Bert
I will do some re-searches with Damage later this week, to really understand what he was thinking.
In the mean time I have started with the 22 Ply search, which will be finalized on Tuesday.
So hereafter I will take some time for your analysis.
After this I will also start the 24 Ply search, which will take 8 days or so.
Most likely the 24 ply Match will be the last in a series for now, as I want to focus next on the "why does Damage sometimes loose", and how to improve.
Bert
Re: Search Algorithm
Herewith the results of the 22 Ply Match.
So (by coincidence) the Ply 22 results are equal to the Ply 20 results.
In the mean time I have found a small bug, which does occur once or twice during a match, and which resulted in the loss of game 29 ( 16 Ply -FML Match, as analyzed by Walter).
Also the same bug was responsible for the loss (game was draw) during this match (game 142 move 60).
Anyway this Damage - Kingsrow system at least reveals some diminishing returns, and (next to that) it seems really difficult for Damage to really move below the other ELO side..
I will now focus on detecting the bug (although it has a small overall impact, I want to get rid of it), and hereafter will run the 24 ply match.
Attached the excel file and pdn match file.
Bert
Code: Select all
Depth ELO W L D U P
12 176 74 0 84 0 0,27
14 104 46 0 112 0 0,35
16 49 23 1 134 0 0,43
18 38 18 1 138 0 0,45
20 2 6 5 147 0 0.50
22 2 6 5 147 0 0.50
In the mean time I have found a small bug, which does occur once or twice during a match, and which resulted in the loss of game 29 ( 16 Ply -FML Match, as analyzed by Walter).
Also the same bug was responsible for the loss (game was draw) during this match (game 142 move 60).
Anyway this Damage - Kingsrow system at least reveals some diminishing returns, and (next to that) it seems really difficult for Damage to really move below the other ELO side..
I will now focus on detecting the bug (although it has a small overall impact, I want to get rid of it), and hereafter will run the 24 ply match.
Attached the excel file and pdn match file.
Bert
- Attachments
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- Fixed Depth MutiCore.xls
- (60.5 KiB) Downloaded 282 times
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- dxpgames_10P22.pdn
- (159.2 KiB) Downloaded 282 times
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- DDD-20130205.png (14.78 KiB) Viewed 8867 times
Re: Search Algorithm
Think I solved the bug.
Did a quick test with a 10 Ply search ( versus ) a 10 Min/Game Kingsrow.
See below table, and attached the usual files.
Bert
Did a quick test with a 10 Ply search ( versus ) a 10 Min/Game Kingsrow.
See below table, and attached the usual files.
Code: Select all
Depth ELO W L D U P
10 299 110 0 48 0 0,15
12 176 74 0 84 0 0,27
14 104 46 0 112 0 0,35
16 49 23 1 134 0 0,43
18 38 18 1 138 0 0,45
20 2 6 5 147 0 0.50
22 2 6 5 147 0 0.50
- Attachments
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- Fixed Depth MutiCore.xls
- (61.5 KiB) Downloaded 308 times
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- dxpgames_10P10.pdn
- (152.99 KiB) Downloaded 270 times
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- DDD-20130206.png (15.76 KiB) Viewed 8839 times
Re: Search Algorithm
One of the things on my to-do list is to share sources.
So herewith the first one related to the Damage MoveGenerator.
(in .doc format, otherwise I was not able to store the files ).
I'm not a hyper/ultra c/c++ expert like Rein, but anyway.
If you have suggestions, ideas, questions, please let me know....
Bert
So herewith the first one related to the Damage MoveGenerator.
(in .doc format, otherwise I was not able to store the files ).
I'm not a hyper/ultra c/c++ expert like Rein, but anyway.
If you have suggestions, ideas, questions, please let me know....
Bert
- Attachments
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- CMoveGen64_h.doc
- (27.5 KiB) Downloaded 285 times
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- CMoveGen64_cpp.doc
- (66.5 KiB) Downloaded 279 times
Re: Search Algorithm
In the mean time (before starting a 24 ply search) I also worked on the Hybrid version ( Horizon 4.0) with Damage search and Horizon evaluation (with Kingsrow 10 Min/Game).
As mentioned before I will share all sources (including the .exe), for this Hybrid version.
I was interested to see if this system behaves in a similar way as seen in the tests before.
It is evident that the Horizon evaluation is not as effective as Damage.
The explanation for this is not obvious, as the Horizon evaluation is quite large, and seem to include all relevant information.
The Horizon evaluation is also quite time-consuming (which is reflected in the relatively low nodes/sec count), but for a fixed depth search this has no impact (as Kingsrow does not ponder in between moves).
I'm now doing a 20 ply search to check if also here we will observe diminishing returns.
I also expect that with increasing search-depth the difference between the 2 evaluations will become less !
Keep you all posted,
Bert
* As usual attached the match .pdn files.
As mentioned before I will share all sources (including the .exe), for this Hybrid version.
I was interested to see if this system behaves in a similar way as seen in the tests before.
Code: Select all
Depth ELO W L D U P
14 191 80 1 77 0 0,25
16 114 52 2 104 0 0,34
18 55 29 4 125 0 0,42
The explanation for this is not obvious, as the Horizon evaluation is quite large, and seem to include all relevant information.
The Horizon evaluation is also quite time-consuming (which is reflected in the relatively low nodes/sec count), but for a fixed depth search this has no impact (as Kingsrow does not ponder in between moves).
I'm now doing a 20 ply search to check if also here we will observe diminishing returns.
I also expect that with increasing search-depth the difference between the 2 evaluations will become less !
Keep you all posted,
Bert
* As usual attached the match .pdn files.
- Attachments
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- dxpgames_H10P18.pdn
- (159.31 KiB) Downloaded 289 times
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- dxpgames_H10P16.pdn
- (158.51 KiB) Downloaded 222 times
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- dxpgames_H10P14.pdn
- (155.33 KiB) Downloaded 243 times
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- Fixed Depth MutiCore.xls
- (62.5 KiB) Downloaded 258 times
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- DDD-20130216.png (16.87 KiB) Viewed 8782 times
Re: Search Algorithm
I have added to the program the option to generate a .log file, to see what was cooking below the surface.
I might add other information in the future.
If you have special request, items you think should be included, let me know, so I can work on this.
Herewith the .log file for the most recent 18 Ply Search Match.
If you also want to receive the .log files for the 14 ply and 16 ply Matches, just drop a line....
Bert
I might add other information in the future.
If you have special request, items you think should be included, let me know, so I can work on this.
Herewith the .log file for the most recent 18 Ply Search Match.
If you also want to receive the .log files for the 14 ply and 16 ply Matches, just drop a line....
Bert
- Attachments
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- DXPMatch_H10P18.zip
- (2.84 MiB) Downloaded 231 times