When we got good swiss pairing program for draughts?
Toernooimanager – some persons from fmjd officials said that this is official program, IMHO it isn't good program at all – and it includes some serious errors. For example it don't calculate correctly buchholz minus lowest and buchholz minus lowest/highest when used points in chess style (1-½-0). Some suggestions also - it must include rating calculator and in ranking list must be possible to print also ratings of players.
I posted that here, because in program I did't found any contact address to report errors to author.
swiss pairing program
One little example: in EC woman for example in the 4th round as minimum 5 pairs played with wrong colors (for example: 3rd time with same colors at row /georgieva, makarenkova, uvacana and the same for rijgersburg in 5th round/, so program dont know rules)
Another one: In the last two months (at least) in 2 tournaments that program can't make pairing in some round at all... simply crashed... and what do You do, when, it's rapid tournament,, and You dont have pairing cards at all... Will start tournament from 1st round again?
Another one: In the last two months (at least) in 2 tournaments that program can't make pairing in some round at all... simply crashed... and what do You do, when, it's rapid tournament,, and You dont have pairing cards at all... Will start tournament from 1st round again?
Re: swiss pairing program
Villem wrote:When we got good swiss pairing program for draughts?
Toernooimanager – some persons from fmjd officials said that this is official program, IMHO it isn't good program at all – and it includes some serious errors. For example it don't calculate correctly buchholz minus lowest and buchholz minus lowest/highest when used points in chess style (1-½-0). Some suggestions also - it must include rating calculator and in ranking list must be possible to print also ratings of players.
I posted that here, because in program I did't found any contact address to report errors to author.
It all lookes like a problem with your version of the program and/or your computer.Villem wrote:One little example: in EC woman for example in the 4th round as minimum 5 pairs played with wrong colors (for example: 3rd time with same colors at row /georgieva, makarenkova, uvacana and the same for rijgersburg in 5th round/, so program dont know rules)
Another one: In the last two months (at least) in 2 tournaments that program can't make pairing in some round at all... simply crashed... and what do You do, when, it's rapid tournament,, and You dont have pairing cards at all... Will start tournament from 1st round again?
I use Toernooimanger for at least 10 years without problems.
- never crashed
- always managed to make a program
Please check your version with the downloads at KNDB-site (only for legal versions).
For the 'problem' of the color. In draughts white and black have same chances, so color is not realy important. In Toernooimanager there is an option 'color important' Yes/No. For draughts this must be No, because you get a better paring on strenght. For chess paring on color is more important then paring on strenght, therefor in chess it must be Yes.
For other 'problems' If you use the correct version of Toernooimanager you:
- can print rating of participants
- I don't know about incorrect calculation in chess notation, because I don't use that option
- rating calculator is not important in my opinion
Re: swiss pairing program
About crash... It happened with last version, and it happened 10 years ago also. So I think that You never used that program.
About colors... Read the rules! It's absolute criteria, that player can't play 3 times in the row with the same color.
The strangest thing with Kompitie (or what that name was) was... in round-robin tournament with 10, (12 etc) participants, player with number 10 (12) played all rounds with black.
About colors... Read the rules! It's absolute criteria, that player can't play 3 times in the row with the same color.
The strangest thing with Kompitie (or what that name was) was... in round-robin tournament with 10, (12 etc) participants, player with number 10 (12) played all rounds with black.
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Jacques PERMAL
- Posts: 3384
- Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2003 09:15
- Location: ROUEN - NORMANDY
I usually use chess software SWISSPERFECT. And it is perfect [img]images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
Information : my first priority !!
L'info en première ligne !!
L'info en première ligne !!
So, there is new version of toernooimanager (7.34) available, but if I saw in the column of solkoff minus lowest such numbers as 1312649728 and solkoff minus lowest-highest -231916 then there is something went completely wrong.
BTW swiss perfect isn't also perfect because it doesn't know swiss pairing rules in draughts, but it's much better than toernooimanager.
BTW swiss perfect isn't also perfect because it doesn't know swiss pairing rules in draughts, but it's much better than toernooimanager.
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Piet Bouma
- Posts: 3574
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 13:05
- Location: Harlingen
Maybe you can send your remarks (bugs in Solkoff) by mail to the KNDB Villem (with the .kw en .101 files), so that Jan Masselink (the programmer) can fix something?Villem wrote:So, there is new version of toernooimanager (7.34) available, but if I saw in the column of solkoff minus lowest such numbers as 1312649728 and solkoff minus lowest-highest -231916 then there is something went completely wrong.
BTW swiss perfect isn't also perfect because it doesn't know swiss pairing rules in draughts, but it's much better than toernooimanager.
I know he appreciates feedback.
No! I don't post any comment to KNDB, because FMJD must take decisions! And nowadays I really suggest to FMJD take decision - It's better NOT to use Toernooimanager in draughts events.Piet Bouma wrote:Maybe you can send your remarks (bugs in Solkoff) by mail to the KNDB Villem (with the .kw en .101 files), so that Jan Masselink (the programmer) can fix something?Villem wrote:So, there is new version of toernooimanager (7.34) available, but if I saw in the column of solkoff minus lowest such numbers as 1312649728 and solkoff minus lowest-highest -231916 then there is something went completely wrong.
BTW swiss perfect isn't also perfect because it doesn't know swiss pairing rules in draughts, but it's much better than toernooimanager.
I know he appreciates feedback.
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Piet Bouma
- Posts: 3574
- Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2003 13:05
- Location: Harlingen
Well, that is a statement Villem!Villem wrote:
No! I don't post any comment to KNDB, because FMJD must take decisions! And nowadays I really suggest to FMJD take decision - It's better NOT to use Toernooimanager in draughts events.
Sounds like some really frustration.
But is there a good alternative?
You say that Swiss Perfect does not have the pairing rules of the FMJD.
Chess Arbiter looks quite good. The web-interface seems to be just one click on a button and it is on Internet.
But there I noticed, is no ranking on opponents-rating (so I think also no pairing rules of the FMJD).
But maybe they have made adjustments.
The solution? I don't know.
Maybe the FMJD has order a programmer to build a programm that applies to their wishes. But that will cost money, I think.
The other way is, what I suggested, send mail to the people who supply (KNDB), so that programms can be better (and bugs can be fixed).
I didn't know my program was so bad , glad that I do not have to earn a living on the revenues...
As Piet Bouma states I am very interested in feedback, especially when pairings go wrong, rankings are wrong or if you have good ideas for improvement.
For fixing bugs it is necessary to have the datafiles (the files ending with KW7 and 101 etc.) and a description of the problem, otherwise I cannot find a solution. My e-mail address is known by KNDB and FMJD webmaster. To avoid spam I will not post it in this reply.
Regarding some of your comments:
- there was a version active with a bug in the pairing routine, it was discovered by the The Hague committee and adjusted the same night
- by default color preference is not a pairing rule in draughts (apart from chess where there is an advantage for the white player), however you can toggle this on if you want to.
- own ratings can be printed in the rankings if you want to, just put it in the settings
Regards,
Jan Masselink
As Piet Bouma states I am very interested in feedback, especially when pairings go wrong, rankings are wrong or if you have good ideas for improvement.
For fixing bugs it is necessary to have the datafiles (the files ending with KW7 and 101 etc.) and a description of the problem, otherwise I cannot find a solution. My e-mail address is known by KNDB and FMJD webmaster. To avoid spam I will not post it in this reply.
Regarding some of your comments:
- there was a version active with a bug in the pairing routine, it was discovered by the The Hague committee and adjusted the same night
- by default color preference is not a pairing rule in draughts (apart from chess where there is an advantage for the white player), however you can toggle this on if you want to.
- own ratings can be printed in the rankings if you want to, just put it in the settings
Regards,
Jan Masselink
Why don't you people cooperate to make things better? I just don't understand why this is so difficult.
My suggestion for Jan:
- Scroll to one of Villem's messages (like the first post of this thread).
- Click the 'PM' button.
- Type a nice message for Villem. Don't forget to include your email address.
- Click the 'Submit' button.
I think Villem will not send any data; he just wants to complain. As he already mentioned, he wants the FMJD to make a decision not to use Toernooimanager. Why is that? What's the alternative? For me it's clear there is no perfect software, but we can try to make things better.
A few more observations.
From time to time, the policymakers in the draughts world do not realize that our sport differs from other sports, like chess. The best example of the past year is the playoff system in Beijing. It makes no sense in draughts to have someone qualify for the next round by just playing draws. In chess, white has a slight advantage and therefore a chance to win, but in draughts the chance of winning when the opponent just has to reach a draw is way too small. The same holds for the pairing rules. As Villem states, the rules say one may not have the same color for more than 2 subsequent games. The idea is to balance the number of games with white and black for a player. This is important in chess, but not in draughts. The solution is not to adjust the software, but to make suitable rules for draughts.
Some tournament organisers don't know how to use their software. As explained in earlier posts, the settings in Toernooimanager can be adapted to match the FMJD rules if you wish. The solution is not to blame the software maker or not to use the software anymore, but to give instructions to the tournament organisers.
My suggestion for Jan:
- Scroll to one of Villem's messages (like the first post of this thread).
- Click the 'PM' button.
- Type a nice message for Villem. Don't forget to include your email address.
- Click the 'Submit' button.
I think Villem will not send any data; he just wants to complain. As he already mentioned, he wants the FMJD to make a decision not to use Toernooimanager. Why is that? What's the alternative? For me it's clear there is no perfect software, but we can try to make things better.
A few more observations.
From time to time, the policymakers in the draughts world do not realize that our sport differs from other sports, like chess. The best example of the past year is the playoff system in Beijing. It makes no sense in draughts to have someone qualify for the next round by just playing draws. In chess, white has a slight advantage and therefore a chance to win, but in draughts the chance of winning when the opponent just has to reach a draw is way too small. The same holds for the pairing rules. As Villem states, the rules say one may not have the same color for more than 2 subsequent games. The idea is to balance the number of games with white and black for a player. This is important in chess, but not in draughts. The solution is not to adjust the software, but to make suitable rules for draughts.
Some tournament organisers don't know how to use their software. As explained in earlier posts, the settings in Toernooimanager can be adapted to match the FMJD rules if you wish. The solution is not to blame the software maker or not to use the software anymore, but to give instructions to the tournament organisers.
