From site EDC (European Draughts Confederation):
"Dear all,
1st of August 2003 - black day in draughts history !
FMJD member IGNORE official reglament, ignore vce president of FMJD and EDC president decision, ignore OFFCIAL referee chosen by TC-FMJD !
Pity but we have a BIG SCANDAL in Minsk !
Belarus Draughts Federation and also even SPORT MINISTRY (!) IGNORE all faxes and phones from EDC board.
Belarus Federation have a new main referee (Mr.Gorbatchov), so probably new EDC president (Irina Pashkiewitch ??? - congratulations !).
They start with his OWN players list... so we have there JUST YOUTH TOURNAMENT.
All international draughts community should seriously thing where we going !!!
In the name of EDC-board
Jacek Pawlicki - EDC President
P.S.
I hope for emails and faxes from official person from European Federation. We had to think what to do with this unbelievable situation
email: jacek@warcaby.pl fax: +48 91 4882288"
Is it finish 5th Youth European Championship?
In Minsk on Belarus only ... Int.Youth Draughts Tournament
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Guest
Re: In Minsk on Belarus only ... Int.Youth Draughts Tourname
Maybe it's not as bad as it seems!
Sergej Gorbatsjov is a very nice man and a good referee.
And Irina Pasjkevitsj is a lady very good in organizing tournaments.
Jazek Pawlicki is not capable of finding sponsors.
So, what is the problem??
Sergej Gorbatsjov is a very nice man and a good referee.
And Irina Pasjkevitsj is a lady very good in organizing tournaments.
Jazek Pawlicki is not capable of finding sponsors.
So, what is the problem??
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Hanco Elenbaas
- Posts: 18872
- Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2003 14:49
Re: European Youth Championship in Minsk
Forgot to login.Anonymous wrote:Maybe it's not as bad as it seems!
Sergej Gorbatsjov is a very nice man and a good referee.
And Irina Pasjkevitsj is a lady very good in organizing tournaments.
Jazek Pawlicki is not capable of finding sponsors.
So, what is the problem??
I Don't think there is a problem!
The only problem could be Pawlicki.
No one has the right to say that this
Championship is not the European Championship
anymore.
Or is Pawlicki the owner of the EDC??
That would be a problem!
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Jacques PERMAL
- Posts: 3384
- Joined: Sat Apr 12, 2003 09:15
- Location: ROUEN - NORMANDY
Consensus
I hope that Belarus federation and EDC board will discuss about it after the championship and there will be consensus.
We have to settle FMJD crisis first.
Why will we create a second problem ?
We have to settle FMJD crisis first.
Why will we create a second problem ?
Information : my first priority !!
L'info en première ligne !!
L'info en première ligne !!
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Eleonora Radin Bubbi
Explenations about EYC
Hello to all,
I am Eleonora.
In 2002 I was in St. Petersburg for EYC, and I protested as Italian Draughts Federation for the 8 players in EYC.
We had a meeting, I spoken by mob-phone to Mr. Pawlicki, were present all Federations representants.
They discussed and then they voted for 6 players.
I didn't accept it and I didn't vote.
Then there were 6 russian players in EYC ONLY FOR 2002.
Mr.Lelis as Vicepresident EDC wrote a letter for that exceptionel case ONLY FOR 2002.
AS It.Dr.Fed. and also as person I said and I repeat to day, that
IF YOU DON'T RESPECT THE RULES AND DON'T FOLLOW THE RULES IT IS BETTER DON'T TO DO IT.
BECAUSE AFTER YOU HAVE THE REVOLUTION AND NOT A DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM, HOW WE CAN SEE ALSO THIS YEAR.
Only a thing I don't understand about the behaviour of Irina:
" Does she want to dammage the Federations that have gone in Minsk thinking to take part to an European Championship and not to a normal Tournament".
I ask for my Federation explanations about it.
Best regards,
Eleonora Radin Bubbi
I am Eleonora.
In 2002 I was in St. Petersburg for EYC, and I protested as Italian Draughts Federation for the 8 players in EYC.
We had a meeting, I spoken by mob-phone to Mr. Pawlicki, were present all Federations representants.
They discussed and then they voted for 6 players.
I didn't accept it and I didn't vote.
Then there were 6 russian players in EYC ONLY FOR 2002.
Mr.Lelis as Vicepresident EDC wrote a letter for that exceptionel case ONLY FOR 2002.
AS It.Dr.Fed. and also as person I said and I repeat to day, that
IF YOU DON'T RESPECT THE RULES AND DON'T FOLLOW THE RULES IT IS BETTER DON'T TO DO IT.
BECAUSE AFTER YOU HAVE THE REVOLUTION AND NOT A DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM, HOW WE CAN SEE ALSO THIS YEAR.
Only a thing I don't understand about the behaviour of Irina:
" Does she want to dammage the Federations that have gone in Minsk thinking to take part to an European Championship and not to a normal Tournament".
I ask for my Federation explanations about it.
Best regards,
Eleonora Radin Bubbi
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A.Presman
- Posts: 2129
- Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2002 16:43
- Real name: Alexander Presman
- Location: the Netherlands
It is always funny how different accents can be put in the same matter.
Maybe not everybody knows that 1 april 2003 in Moscow the document has been signed ( I have only russian version of it ) by both russian federations, W. van Beek ( that time President of the FMJD ) and A.Yatsenko ( Vice-President FMJD) where was mentioned that:
- the official position of Russian sport ministry is that it can be just one draughts federation in Russia
- both federations declared their will to create the joined federation
- from the moment of signing of this document the FMJD declares that the winners of both youth championships of Russia will be admitted in the World championship Youth.
So EDC has ( if it wants ) very clear reason to admit both Russian teams to play in the European championship in Minsk. It is an absurd if the FMJD do allow both russian champions to play in the WCh and then one of them is not allowed to play in the ECh. EDC is still a part of the FMJD - isnt'it?
So who is the creator of the anarchy and problems if not the EDC self?
And about declaration European championship not to be the championship but just a tournament.
There are some few thousands people for whom this championship is interesting and important.
Almost 200 players, their trainers, parents, federations, sport and general schools, relatives, press etc.
Let say 10.000 people.
How many of them are interested that this tournament remains European championship even if the list of player is a little different from the list made by EDC? (And there is still clear and for me right motivation of the Belarussian draughts federation)
I guess 9.990
Unfortunately among the 10 is Mr. Pawlicky from the position of personal ambitions (not enaugh respect to his personal decision) thinks that tournament has to loose his status. I ask myself if he represents by this way interests of European draughts players?
And I heard that he is trying to contact local Sport Ministry to push his idea there. The one who knows how fragile is the state's support of draughts in countries where it still exists can understand how harmful is such an action for draughts in general.
So the question Eleonora asks Irina would be exactly addressed to Mr. Pawlicky.
But anyhow, you can hear it almost from everybody (for exact numbers see above) - "why should children suffer from the mistakes of adults"? Especially when there is not even a real reason for it.
P.S. Italian draughts federation on 17 May during the GA has voted for the recognition of two Russian federations. Isn't it? I don't want to judge - the question is very complicated. I just say that if you vote for recognition of two federations - please be consequent.
Maybe not everybody knows that 1 april 2003 in Moscow the document has been signed ( I have only russian version of it ) by both russian federations, W. van Beek ( that time President of the FMJD ) and A.Yatsenko ( Vice-President FMJD) where was mentioned that:
- the official position of Russian sport ministry is that it can be just one draughts federation in Russia
- both federations declared their will to create the joined federation
- from the moment of signing of this document the FMJD declares that the winners of both youth championships of Russia will be admitted in the World championship Youth.
So EDC has ( if it wants ) very clear reason to admit both Russian teams to play in the European championship in Minsk. It is an absurd if the FMJD do allow both russian champions to play in the WCh and then one of them is not allowed to play in the ECh. EDC is still a part of the FMJD - isnt'it?
So who is the creator of the anarchy and problems if not the EDC self?
And about declaration European championship not to be the championship but just a tournament.
There are some few thousands people for whom this championship is interesting and important.
Almost 200 players, their trainers, parents, federations, sport and general schools, relatives, press etc.
Let say 10.000 people.
How many of them are interested that this tournament remains European championship even if the list of player is a little different from the list made by EDC? (And there is still clear and for me right motivation of the Belarussian draughts federation)
I guess 9.990
Unfortunately among the 10 is Mr. Pawlicky from the position of personal ambitions (not enaugh respect to his personal decision) thinks that tournament has to loose his status. I ask myself if he represents by this way interests of European draughts players?
And I heard that he is trying to contact local Sport Ministry to push his idea there. The one who knows how fragile is the state's support of draughts in countries where it still exists can understand how harmful is such an action for draughts in general.
So the question Eleonora asks Irina would be exactly addressed to Mr. Pawlicky.
But anyhow, you can hear it almost from everybody (for exact numbers see above) - "why should children suffer from the mistakes of adults"? Especially when there is not even a real reason for it.
P.S. Italian draughts federation on 17 May during the GA has voted for the recognition of two Russian federations. Isn't it? I don't want to judge - the question is very complicated. I just say that if you vote for recognition of two federations - please be consequent.
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Eleonora Radin Bubbi
EYC
Hello,
Yes, you are right about voting, and I remember perfectly that I pose the problem of partecipation of players in Championship, but if you look at the rules, the problem was solved the year before with the letter of EDC on the extraordinary and only for 2002 case of the partecipation to EYC of 2 russian federations.
In any case the russian problems must to be solved by them and not harmful the partecipation to an EYC instead of now a tournament.
If I remember something I read on FMJD crisis about the second AG 18.5.2003 there was acknowledge only One Russian Federation.... ??
Then, I listen to that also Mr. Shovkoplyas stated for the partecipation to EYC of only one russian federation ....
Federations that organize must stay at the rules of the International Organism at which they want to be part of.
The interpretation of the rules are by the Organisms that are acknowledge by CIO or GAISF and not for some singles persons of a federation.
If one don't stay to the rules one is out of law.
Best regards,
Eleonora Radin Bubbi
Yes, you are right about voting, and I remember perfectly that I pose the problem of partecipation of players in Championship, but if you look at the rules, the problem was solved the year before with the letter of EDC on the extraordinary and only for 2002 case of the partecipation to EYC of 2 russian federations.
In any case the russian problems must to be solved by them and not harmful the partecipation to an EYC instead of now a tournament.
If I remember something I read on FMJD crisis about the second AG 18.5.2003 there was acknowledge only One Russian Federation.... ??
Then, I listen to that also Mr. Shovkoplyas stated for the partecipation to EYC of only one russian federation ....
Federations that organize must stay at the rules of the International Organism at which they want to be part of.
The interpretation of the rules are by the Organisms that are acknowledge by CIO or GAISF and not for some singles persons of a federation.
If one don't stay to the rules one is out of law.
Best regards,
Eleonora Radin Bubbi
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Alexander Soerkov
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 13:44
- Location: Moscow, Russia
- Contact:
Alexander. You have not completely resulted the text of the signed report. Also the nominee of the head of the incorporated federation has been coordinated. Next day after signing this document Klimashev has officially rejected a part of items of the report, having recognized only one, that from his federation sportsmen should be supposed in tournaments FMJD. He does not consider it necessary to carry out and item of the report in which incurs obligations to aspire to association. On one of offers FID, copies were sent in FMJD, with variants of association of the official answer was not. For two with a year of existence of a problem many reports were superfluous. One is for some reason resulted only. The most convenient?
You can recollect the decision of CD which member you were, a recognition of powers FID. You can recollect the decision of general assembly "100" FMJD a recognition the unique representative of Russia in "100" FID. The similar decision accepted also bureau EDC. Why you do not make it? That the list of participants of the youth championship of Europe has been announced for some days prior to the beginning though about powers and representation in tournament it was known one year ago, leads to ideas, that scandal has been planned and provoked BDF.
I want to emphasize also, that representatives FID have passed very strong sports selection. Tournaments RDF had only from one up to four participants in each age category, and one participant from RDF has been included under patronage Wiersma [img]images/smilies/icon_eek.gif[/img] . I want to tell, that this problem - not only a problem of Russia. From a similar situation any national federation is not insured. The second, third, fourth federation in Belarus, in Ukraine, etc. tomorrow can appear. To demand from them that all of them were united, and before to exclude from draughts lives, it is not reasonable and it is not sports. This problem arose and in other international sports federations. FMJD, as well as other international federations, the responsibility by definition of the national federation most representative and most observing sports principles should incur, that EDC and has made.
You can recollect the decision of CD which member you were, a recognition of powers FID. You can recollect the decision of general assembly "100" FMJD a recognition the unique representative of Russia in "100" FID. The similar decision accepted also bureau EDC. Why you do not make it? That the list of participants of the youth championship of Europe has been announced for some days prior to the beginning though about powers and representation in tournament it was known one year ago, leads to ideas, that scandal has been planned and provoked BDF.
I want to emphasize also, that representatives FID have passed very strong sports selection. Tournaments RDF had only from one up to four participants in each age category, and one participant from RDF has been included under patronage Wiersma [img]images/smilies/icon_eek.gif[/img] . I want to tell, that this problem - not only a problem of Russia. From a similar situation any national federation is not insured. The second, third, fourth federation in Belarus, in Ukraine, etc. tomorrow can appear. To demand from them that all of them were united, and before to exclude from draughts lives, it is not reasonable and it is not sports. This problem arose and in other international sports federations. FMJD, as well as other international federations, the responsibility by definition of the national federation most representative and most observing sports principles should incur, that EDC and has made.
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Alkand
Could me please ask mister H.Wiersma ?
I have published fax of Mr. Klimashev, where he wrote that Mr. H.Wiersma asking include young Russian player Kisterev to this tournament. Can somebody ask Mr. H.Wiersma, -Tournaments RDF had only from one up to four participants in each age category, and one participant from RDF has been included under patronage Wiersma [img]images/smilies/icon_eek.gif[/img]
- Is it true?
- If - yes, then why he asked about this boy? Is he big talent?
In present time Kisterev takes 27 place from 28 players... No comments...
